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  • Round 56 Ticks Start: Friday 21st March 2014
  • Round 56 Ticks End: Friday 9th May 2014

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  • Round 56 - Twist of Fate: 297

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Creators Hour 15/12/2012

*** Mode #planetarion +m by Appocomaster
<Appocomaster> on time! :)
<Appocomaster> I don't know if Ace is here but :) otherwise, we're good
<Appocomaster> okay
<Appocomaster> on with the show
<Appocomaster> Hi all,
<Appocomaster> Welcome to this Creators Hour, the first since 2010!
<Appocomaster> First, I'll be giving an update on some recent events, then there will be a question and answer session via CH_Bot. To ask questions, please /msg CH_Bot <your question>.
<Appocomaster> An update on some of the recent history of Planetarion with Jagex:
<Appocomaster> Around two years ago, the issue of a rival game was raised with the Jagex management. After this, Jagex held meetings with a view to planning how to move the game forward. Things then went quiet and so in late 2011 the issue was raised again and assurances were given that work was being done and that a team would be formed to develop the game. A proposal was slowly developed to flesh this out.
<Appocomaster> In mid 2012 the key lead for the team got promoted "out of reach" and a replacement was finally settled on in the middle of Round 48. Unfortunately, due to legal advise from the incoming team, the contract that had been drafted was deemed unsignable. Due to the amount of effort taken to get to this point and the expense of completely redrafting the contract, it was decided to abandon it.
<Appocomaster> This has left the game solely with the PA team, with the main advantage that we are no longer being told to "wait for things to get sorted out" before doing non-trivial changes.
<Appocomaster> As a note, contact has been made between Spinner and the game, but the differences in expectations quickly finished these conversations
<Appocomaster> I would like to confirm that Jagex have made it clear that they won't sell Planetarion and that while the PA Team are still willing to run it, the game will continue. There is no anticipated change in terms of round length, cost, and so forth. Jagex have previously pushed us to change servers (which reduced tick time) and reduced the cost of credits, and have otherwise not really intervened in the running of the game. There are n
<Appocomaster> I'm assuming questions will be asked :P
<Appocomaster> ---> CH_Bot
<Appocomaster> as a reminder, round50@planetarion.com is still waiting on round name submissions
<Appocomaster> submit away!
<Appocomaster> oh, apparently my paste failed
<Appocomaster> *There are no plans from the PA Team to stop running the game. We'll continue to push for the occasional free round, though this may be based on the number of players. Jagex still have no access to user data (though it's stored on their servers).
<Appocomaster> well, ok, we'll start with the fun questions ;p
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 1): <Villan> Did Adam and Eve have Belly Buttons?
<Appocomaster> I'm honestly not sure
<Appocomaster> if you believe the bible, then maybe not
<Appocomaster> if you talk about the first recongisable humans, then evolution says yes
<Appocomaster> if God had a belly button and God created humans in his own image, then maybe :p
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 2): <Xsploit> lancers seemed over powered, do you plan to alter that ship?
<Appocomaster> Lancers were potentially overpowered in Round 49, but we are not planning on reusing r49 stats in their current state
<Appocomaster> as a general note, Round 50 and 51 will consist of stats put forward by mz (on beta.planetarion.com) and one of the sets of MT stats from a previous round (previous round stats are http://beta.planetarion.com/history/ )
<Appocomaster> not sure on the order of this though
<Appocomaster> plan was for R50 to be MT and R51 to be mz's stats, but this may be swapped due to the popularity of mz's stats (apparently)
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 3): <TC> will there ever be a planetarion app?
<Appocomaster> at the current point in time, no
<Appocomaster> we'd have to recode a lot of stuff
<Appocomaster> all of the user interface stuff
<Appocomaster> whilst it'd be fun, the fact we have a mobile skin making things lightweight means it's easier to use on phones
<Appocomaster> with the exception of some issues on the population page, generally I think it works ok
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 4): <TheoDD> why are jagex so eager to still own pa?
<Appocomaster> I've been told Jagex have plans for Planetarion in the future
<Appocomaster> but at the moment they've had to cut back their games due to committing to a few key big name titles
<Appocomaster> honestly, originally, they did plan to provide more man power
<Appocomaster> I think internal restructuring has affected things
<Appocomaster> but I can't actually say for sure
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 5): <tobyy> if the pa team.. make a profit can they invest it into the game? or keep it for themselfs?
<Appocomaster> the money all goes directly to jagex
<Appocomaster> they pay for the servers and maintain them (as in, their server in their data warehouse)
<Appocomaster> we don't have root
<Appocomaster> but as things currently stand, we can't take the profit
<Appocomaster> though tbh, I've heard over the last couple of years, profit isn't really high enough to do much
<Appocomaster> it's not doing much more than breaking even, as far as I know
<Appocomaster> so :/
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 6): <ozzie> How does the PA team hope to attract more players to the game?
<Appocomaster> this is a difficult question and one we've not really properly discussed
<Appocomaster> there are obviously a few options - the "well, invite a friend and get x"
<Appocomaster> paying for advertising may or may not be effective
*** Mode #planetarion +l 165 by Pea
<Appocomaster> due to most new players I know who don't have friends in the game struggling to get to grips with it
<Appocomaster> this may mean a requirement to focus more on user interface, new player tutorials,m and changing things to suppot that
<Appocomaster> also, things like handling new join planets better
<Appocomaster> if you have any questions, feel free to put them on the suggestions forum
<Appocomaster> we do read it
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 7): <Villan> What support will Jagex be giving to the PA team? Also, why was the contract deemed "unsignable"?
<Appocomaster> I'm not going to go as far as saying why it was unsignable
<Appocomaster> the only official internal word we've heard is that ^^
<Appocomaster> I'm honestly not sure if I'm meant to have shared any of the information I have done with you
<Appocomaster> but after so long, I think you all deserve it
<Appocomaster> I don't think that many Jagex people will actually read it, so :p
<Ace> bad boy pocco :)
<Appocomaster> there are a couple of Jagex people who play - one of whom recruited the game under Jagex's wing
<Appocomaster> but ...
-*- Appocomaster shrugs
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 8): <Clouds_phone> Do you plan to market Planetarion, or will you just let the game continue to die out, especially as you now having a rival game shortly being released
<Appocomaster> from my point of view, I think it's a case of doing what I can to keep the game going
<Appocomaster> if everyone stops playing and we only have 100 people each round, then that's obviously not worthwhile running it
<Markb> (don't forget guys, you can submit questions by simply PMing CH_Bot)
<Appocomaster> so partly it's a case of "if you want to keep playing, we (or I) will keep going to keep the game going"
<Appocomaster> advertising is more difficult as i'm not sure we have any budget for it
<Appocomaster> so it'd have to be free stuff, and from the pa team point of view we don't have a lot of time to go out and proactively advertise
<Appocomaster> if anyone wants to volunteer ... then ...
<Appocomaster> :) let us know
<Markb> we've caught onto the social media bug, so we're doing more in that regard
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 9): <Lozz> How much do Jagex currently spend and what is the minimum number of players required to keep the game financially viable?
<Appocomaster> oh
<Appocomaster> backspace!
<Appocomaster> Markb: want to expand ?
<Ace> as most of you know we went on facebook with a page and a group
<Ace> you ofc all are welcome to like our page and ofc join the group
<Ace> back to you Appocomaster
<Appocomaster> do you have the links?
<Ace> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Plane...191899157537172
<Markb> https://www.facebook.com/groups/planetarion/
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> ok
<Appocomaster> .currentquestion
<Appocomaster> .question
<Appocomaster> dammit
<Appocomaster> what was the command?
<Markb> (Q 9): <Lozz> How much do Jagex currently spend and what is the minimum number of players required to keep the game financially viable?
<Appocomaster> thanks
<Appocomaster> we don't know
<Appocomaster> on both cases
<Appocomaster> I guess can work out the expentiture but not sure :/
<Appocomaster> so
<Appocomaster> also don't reall want to share it :P
<Appocomaster> *really
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 10): <Influence> even tho jagex stopped all their commitment to the game, is there a slight chance they will link PA from their website?
<Appocomaster> hmm
<Appocomaster> this is difficult
<Appocomaster> I can ask
<Appocomaster> or w ecan ask to do a mail shot
<Appocomaster> but the first point is, as above, most new average gamers would struggle to come to terms with the game
<Appocomaster> so we really need to sort that out first
<Appocomaster> :) before we take any further steps
<Appocomaster> we can always ask, but have to see
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 11): <TheoDD> any solution to the sell ships... init.. get banned... that occured last round several times?
<Appocomaster> yeha ok
<Appocomaster> this has taken a lot of attention
<Appocomaster> we're considering removing it
<Appocomaster> or making other steps to make it safe
<Appocomaster> I know there's a few different opinions on this
<Appocomaster> Ace, do you have any opinions on it from your point of view?
<Ace> I seen a few suggestions on it and there might be a good one there
<Ace> if we cant make it "safe" we have to go back to the removing part
<Ace> but more ideas are welcome
<Appocomaster> ok? :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 12): <Kai> at what point as a volunteer will you decide you have had enough?
<Appocomaster> difficult
<Appocomaster> for me, depends on my demands on time on other things
<Appocomaster> and I guess how many players
<Appocomaster> :p
<Appocomaster> Ace? Markb?
<Ace> same here
<Ace> no idea if ppl know how much of our free time this takes
<Appocomaster> Ace especially is busy with multihunting every single day
<Ace> but i could say it takes way more time then our day jobs take
<Appocomaster> whereas I have more focused periods beginning and end of the round
<Markb> I'm happy to carry on as long as the others are :)
<Appocomaster> okay :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 13): <[DDK]gm> If jagex gave a shit you would of thought they would of at least put pa on thier website, fck them tbh thier inaction has just strangled pa team and the development of the game.
<Appocomaster> It's difficult; from their point of view, as we make little profit, it's not so rewarding for them to focus on it when they have to spend so much of their time to understand the game further
<Appocomaster> and, they've always maintained that if they're happy with our user interface and new player experience, they'd consider more advertising (in the past)
<Appocomaster> it's difficult and frustrating
<Appocomaster> but I don't think that they'd currently look at advertising on their site (or mail shots) unless we can prove that new users would actually say
<Appocomaster> *stay
<Appocomaster> which I don't think is possible
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 14): <Vist> surely the credit fees over a 10 week period which happen 4/5 time sa year cover the hosting fees. would you consider using the leftover to spend on advertising as you say you guys do this for free
<Appocomaster> we don't get the money, jagex do
<Appocomaster> I'm not sure the income of the game is 5 figures tbh
<Appocomaster> if you do the maths
<Appocomaster> again, we can ask, but I don't think the game does make much profit
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 15): <Influence> will there be an effort made to allow for more community driven development? IE. improved support for 'external' resources like CT's KIA and the various Merlin environments out there? Or even additional volunteer coders etc?
<Appocomaster> the problem is, in the past, we've had about 4-6 "community" developers
<Appocomaster> when we discussed and asked for help and so on, we didn't really get any in practice. We have about 20 lines of active code
<Appocomaster> from them
<Appocomaster> more people seemed interested in looking at the code than anything else
<Appocomaster> and even APIs aren't that trivial to do
<Appocomaster> I guess we can look at seeing if it's worthwhile making things more community friendly
<Appocomaster> so some tools can be used
<Appocomaster> honestly, what we need most at the moment is people good with graphics with some time
<Appocomaster> to make some prettier interface designs
<Appocomaster> if anyone is willing to help out (for free) then we'd welcome seeing htem
<Appocomaster> *them
<Appocomaster> we're more waiting on them than coders, to be honest
<Appocomaster> to finalise a few things
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 16): <Speedy-J> what exactly are the changes Jagex allow PA team to do to the game?
<Appocomaster> pretty much anything, I think.
<Appocomaster> they've not really said anything about what we can't do
<Appocomaster> I'm taking that to mean we can do what we wish
<Appocomaster> :p
<Appocomaster> this may be open to discussion
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> but not as far as I know
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 17): <Kai> wouldnt it be better to finish planetarion at rd 50... on a realitive high with the landmark reached an then pull the plug, the pa team is all volunteers and surely jagex are just taking you for mugs and enjoying the revenue
<Appocomaster> as I said, I don't think there's that much in the way of revenue
<Appocomaster> if no one signs up for round 51, then ... fine
<Appocomaster> kinda answers our question
<Appocomaster> but if we still have players, we'll keep going
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 18): <Motti> As a follow up to the sell ships issue. What is the issue? The target planet is the one loosing out here.
<Appocomaster> there are potential abuses
<Appocomaster> though they haven't been well-publicised or realised
<Appocomaster> the main one is the fact that SKs have a really low A/R
<Appocomaster> so are easily stolen
<Appocomaster> when salvaged, they can be easily turned into a profit
<Appocomaster> it's a nice way to donate ships
<Appocomaster> and so on
<Markb> <Motti> Follow up again. Let sell ships be there, just block roid init while you have incs?
<Appocomaster> sell ships as I said above
<Appocomaster> can be abused
<Appocomaster> there are issues with it
<Appocomaster> though potentially steal issues too :)
<Appocomaster> init under incoming is a separate issue and can be considered
<Appocomaster> perhaps should be
<Appocomaster> something for the pa team to discuss and consider
<Appocomaster> comments are always welcome :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 19): <mPulse> If I pay Appocomaster money for some sexytime is it likely that he will agree?
<Appocomaster> unlikely
<Appocomaster> unless you're actually a girl
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 20): <Xsploit> which (if any) of the pa team get paid
<Appocomaster> Cin gets paid a small fee for personal reasons; otherwise he wouldn't be able to contribute
<Appocomaster> no one else is paid
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 21): <BaasB> Then dont def each other so much in 1:1, lol
<Appocomaster> ha!
<Appocomaster> we'll take you all on
<Appocomaster> BRING IT
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 22): <Kai> from ppl i speak to (especially thise who play zik) felt that the salvage rule changes last round made zik a very weak race... it very much felt that you became a swapping race, instead of a stealing one
<Appocomaster> really?
<Appocomaster> it made it more fair with the other races
<Appocomaster> it makes it harder iguess to be "fed" by most stealing
<Appocomaster> and gain value from basically stealing twice when defending with someone else
<Appocomaster> but it's more a case that a long-held wrong has been fixed
<Appocomaster> especailly for cath etc
<Appocomaster> maybe zik are now underpowered and need a boost from elsewhere
<Appocomaster> but I don't think that's wrong
<Appocomaster> ah
<Appocomaster> apparently bad stealings might cause problems
<Appocomaster> as you might lose your targetting of that class
<Appocomaster> I can understand that
<Appocomaster> that's partly why salvaging of ships could be used, I guess
<Appocomaster> it's an issue to be discussed
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> and a worthwhile consideration of why ditching selling of stealing ships may be a bad idea
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 23): <Kai> please dont use a rehashed set of stats for rd 50... mzs stats
<Appocomaster> well, as I csaid, we can consider swapping
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 24): <Vist> can you help us let the new Brasilian allliance win so they get more recruits and you'll have a new user alliance success story to report back to them?
<Appocomaster> lol!
<Appocomaster> I don't think we can let them win on their own but if they wish to compete and play well and get politics working, they could do well
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 25): <Chaos`> As Jaggex seem to have left you to it, would they be open to another party buying the game to put more into it?
<Appocomaster> no
<Appocomaster> as I said, they're not willing to sell the game :)
<Appocomaster> or sub contract it
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 26): <Lozz> If Jagex don't make any money out of it, advertise it or play it why don't they just give the game back to the community so we have full control over it?
<Appocomaster> that's kind of what they've done
<Appocomaster> I guess it's now up to the pa team more
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 27): <Thraxia> do you plan on making major changes to the game? perhaps along with community polls?
<Appocomaster> we can do more community polls
<Appocomaster> we need a nice way of doing it
<Appocomaster> we can do in-game polls
<Appocomaster> as for major changes ... honestly, if we can we'd like to do the passport and get it working properly, with planet histories and more player-based stuff
<Appocomaster> otherwise, i guess "major changes" is up for discussion depending on what they are
<Appocomaster> if you think there's a major change or two that can be made, then feel free to suggest!
<Appocomaster> you can always suggest things and let us review them and the community review them
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 28): <[DDK]gm> the game has clearly become too complex over the years with so many different ways to play, scanner, covert opps etc. why not strip it back to basics for round 50/51 and make it more focused on combat/roiding maybe even fewer races with fewer ways to exploit/cheat and then focus on developing the game from there
<Appocomaster> it's soemthing we'll consider
<Appocomaster> Cin's said he has ideas in that area too
<Appocomaster> I know that in the past, some people have championed
<Appocomaster> simplification
<Appocomaster> making scans more easily accessible
<Appocomaster> and so on
<Appocomaster> it's something for us to potentially discuss
<Appocomaster> it does remove diversity of the game and make it more repretative
<Appocomaster> *repetative
<Appocomaster> things being purely roiding over and over for the best part of 800 ticks with very little variation does get a bit repetative
<Appocomaster> and perhaps some sort of more entertaining end game would make things better
<Appocomaster> to be discussed :)
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 29): <frippet|afk> Would anyone here be willing to pay up to 10.00 for a credit? I mean seriously guys. This game has a long history and many staunch supporters. We wouldn't be here if it wasnt for all the work freely given. If you want the game to succede.. are you not able to support the game you play more?
<Appocomaster> hmm
<Appocomaster> that'd have to go to jagex
<Appocomaster> but, unless the money was going back into the game, I'd really prefer to keep the prices as they are
<Appocomaster> I'd have to have very clear assurances that this was the case before I was willing to suggest to Jagex that this may be an option
<Appocomaster> I don't think they'll change it without consulting with us
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 30): <TC> can planetarion be made into a facebook app, if that would give the playerbase a boost? if only 20% of say 10k new players would keep playing that would triple the current playerbase...
<Appocomaster> as I said before, it's a lot of work
<Appocomaster> and I'd prefer to get the game improved
<Appocomaster> before we make a facebook app
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 31): <Reincarnate> if you block roid init you can ruin someones round pretty easily. lag on getting the salvage res and lag on value drop is better option, no?
<Appocomaster> it's something to be discussed, not confirmed
<Appocomaster> it's a good point
<Appocomaster> that if we do block roid init, sending 1 ship to a planet constantly will really ruin everything
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 32): <Reincarnate> how easy would it be to make the game "multiplanet per player" and can this be looked at? (biggest problem in pa is lack of numbers)
<Appocomaster> hmm
<Appocomaster> I don't know
<Appocomaster> we have an admin option to do something not completely dissimilar
<Appocomaster> but you'd have to have a multi page
<Appocomaster> some sort of overview page
<Appocomaster> and some sort of tracking
<Appocomaster> and also
<Appocomaster> if you have several planets, how are you going to stop people from abusing that?
<Appocomaster> I don't think there's an easy way to sotp that
<Appocomaster> *stop
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 33): <TC> when are forums gonna be reopened? its kinda weird that the boys from brasil need to use an account of a retired player to promote their alliance..
<Appocomaster> we need to do something about this
<Appocomaster> to stop abuse
<Appocomaster> I know there have been suggestions about adding a field
<Appocomaster> to fix it
<Appocomaster> :/
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 34): <Dogg_> Will we go bk to nicks as log in details emails suck
<Appocomaster> not planned to for the moment
<Appocomaster> it's an extra field
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 35): <Vist> I appreciate you guys doing this again! Also appreciate all your guys time and effort. Thanks a bunch PA Team <3
<Appocomaster> you're welcome, thank you too
<Appocomaster> sorry it's taken so long :(
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 36): <Lozz> Is there any chance of an ingam chat instead of new players having to learn and use IRC?
<Appocomaster> gmm
<Appocomaster> we do have the link
<Appocomaster> I think that's the best compromise
<Appocomaster> so mayn things are IRC based
<Appocomaster> it's so good for organising
<Appocomaster> (i've found this in o ther games too)
<Appocomaster> you need the ability for channels and so on
<Appocomaster> you might as well just have IRC :/
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 37): <frippet|afk> What if we all slip you a little bit extra on teh side.. non game related ;)
<Markb> and having an ingame chat would duplicate stuff
<Markb> (carry on)
<Appocomaster> oh
<Appocomaster> sorry
<Appocomaster> that's technically Mark's question :p
<Appocomaster> I have the bit between my teeth :p
<Appocomaster> but yeah, it's all just going to be duplication
<Appocomaster> I know you need to have P and stuff and that's a bit of extra
<Appocomaster> but ...
<Appocomaster> unless it's some sort of informal (monitored) chat ...
<Appocomaster> :/
<Appocomaster> && frippet, you could do that but then there's the discussion of what we'd do with it and how we'd use it
<Markb> we're certainly open to ideas on what we can do stuff with the com unit etc, hopefully if the NetGamers website gets revamped we can possibly look to some P integration with registering channels etc
<Appocomaster> yea, NetGamers is a bit quiet too :p
<Appocomaster> we need to attack Jeekay!
<Appocomaster> frippet: thanks for the idea but I guess we'd need a definite list on what to do with it first
<Appocomaster> :p
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 38): <Dogg_> C200 b abolished to make more targets?
<Appocomaster> no
<Appocomaster> as long as we keep an eye on big planets trying to hide there ...
<Appocomaster> Ace: have you found much cheating in c200?
<Appocomaster> i think it makes it slightly nicer for semi active planets who do get exiled ..
<Ace> we had a few big boys hiding there
<Ace> but they returned asap :)
<Appocomaster> I understand that there are more targets there
<Appocomaster> might as well have bot planets
<Appocomaster> (which would definitely be a topic for discussion!)
<Appocomaster> (humans vs bots)
<Appocomaster> (my personal passion which I gave up for a while)
<Appocomaster> :P
<Appocomaster> .nqp
<CH_Bot> (Q 39): <ozzie> Maybe for new players have a channel on irc for them to visit as soon as they sign up where they can get help from ppl who already play. Nd have a similar channel to help people with commands etc. Have it linked onto Planetarion chat in game where they sign up and can go straight into chan. Have a few ppl who play and would be willing to help new ppl in that room.
<Appocomaster> #bootcamp
<Appocomaster> :)
<Appocomaster> we have a few friendly chappies idling there
<Appocomaster> and a few new people who pop up in there asking questions
<Appocomaster> it does work
<Markb> Indeed - we can advertise the chan via a com-unit link so you can auto join there if you click just that link, or the person can add it to one of their autojoin channels on the com-unit
<Ace> those friendly idlers there are players that like to help new ppl
<Markb> (it's already there as an official channel along with #support for help with any Planetarion related questions/issues)
<Appocomaster> ok
<Appocomaster> I think that's kind of an end
<Appocomaster> we overran but I did spend a bit of time at the beginning
<Appocomaster> thanks for listening
<Appocomaster> will get the logs up
<Appocomaster> and we can discuss things going forward
<Appocomaster> on the suggestions forum etc
<Appocomaster> thanks :)
<Appocomaster> and bbiab
*** Mode #planetarion -m by Appocomaster